Republic 2 (367e--375a)

Justice in the City

 

Contents:

Socrates' Response:  Justice in the City (367e-369b)

  • Socrates agrees to undertake the defense of the life of justice, but does so in a rather peculiar way.  He begins with the larger task of first discussing justice in the city (polis); only later will he go on to describe justice in the soul
    • His reasons for taking this particular tact are:
  1. justice is the same whether in the city or in the individual soul.
  2. it is easier to analyze justice in the city than it would be to analyze it in the soul  (369a).
  3. therefore, he will examine the city first (368d-434c) and then apply what he learns to the soul  (434c-445e).

Rise of the Minimal City  (369b-373a)

  • Socrates defines the city as an association of people based upon need (369b).
    • A city comes into being because human beings cannot satisfy all their individual needs on their own, and recognize that they need to work cooperatively with others.
    • With the rise of the city there necessarily occurs a  division of skills  (e.g., farming, shoe making, building weaving).  Before the city exists each individual has to perform all of these skills themselves, and not always satisfactorily..
  • In his description of the primitive city Socrates presupposes the principle of specialization— that within the city one person should do one job   (Annals 73-74).
    • leads to cooperation:  everyone works on specific tasks to meet the needs of the community
    • specialization is natural:  every person has different talents and abilities (370a)
    • but what about the person who doesn't enjoy his job (i.e., toll collector).  Socrates argues that this is a selfish attitude 

The Luxurious City  (373a-375a)

  • The city that Socrates has described  (396b-372a) is one of simple living in the country.
    • Glaucon objects, however, that such a city is fit more for pigs than for human beings  (372d).
  • Socrates reluctantly agrees that most folks wouldn't be content living in the minimal city.  
    • not satisfied with simple comforts they would naturally desire more civilized pleasures  (e.g., jewelry, plush furniture, fancy clothes, haute cuisine, entertainment).
    • therefore, they are going to need more specialized skills in their city  (e.g., performers, barbers, prostitutes, pastry makers, etc.).
    • having additional citizens means that they are going to need more food for these people, and hence, more land to grow food.
    • therefore, they are going to have to expand their territory through warfare  (373d-e)
    • therefore they will need a permanent professional army.
  • Once it is accepted that the luxurious city is a necessity, the skill of combat becomes the most important in the city.
    • it follows that the leaders of the army — the Guardians—should also be the rulers of the city.
  • Possible Interpretation of the Two Cities:
    • The minimal city is Socrates' idea.  Because only the most basic human needs are met, there will be no corruption
    • BUT:  Because it is inevitable that people will want greater comforts, the luxurious city is actually more realistic.  

    • Plato's quest, therefore can be seen as an attempt to develop a portrait of the just society from a realistic starting point.  He is not interested in creating a utopian fantasy (Pappas 63-64; Annas 77-79) 

    Suggestions for Further Reading

  • Annas, Julia.  An Introduction to Plato's Republic.  New York:  Oxford, 1981 [58-94]
  • Bloom, Allan.  The Republic of Plato.  New York: Harper Collins, 1968.  [337-351]
  • Irwin, Terence.  Plato's Ethics.  New York: Oxford UP, 1995.  [181-202] 
  • Kirwin, C.  "Glaucon's Challenge," Phronesis 10 (1965): 162-173.
  • Pappas, Nickolas.  Plato and the Republic.  New York: Routlege, 1995.    [51-70]
  • Rice, Daryl H.   A Guide to Plato's Republic.  New York: Oxford University Press, 1998.  [35-52]
  • Taylor, A.E.  Plato: The Man and His Work.  Cleveland: Meridian, 1964.  [270-273]
  • White,  Nicholas P.  A Companion to Plato's Republic.  Indianapolis: Hackett, 1979.  [74-94]

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